index #
end Tape 3, side A
education 002 M. C. : When I, I was a senior in high school, this Helen that just now called, she and I had heard
of a movie in Seattle called "The Guilded Lily." And we had read the synopsis of it, the
story. And, and I was very much interested 'cause T was interested in the physical being.
And we came in to Seattle to see that movie. We didn't tell out parents, we didn't tell
anybody, but we were seniors and felt like that was a part of our choice. And this was to
teach young people how to sexually take care of themselves so they would not have sexual
disease. And I'll never forget that, that, that did more to me for years than anything else.
And 1 often wonder why they don't use it a little bit more in trying to teach sex education to
young people because the first thing that came out was a beautiful Easter Lilly, you know,
foiued out. One of, u!i, God's giealesl urealiuns, fioweis. And tiien it sltuvved this young
couple, and she was slightly trained, I don't think he had any training at all in the matter of
control. And from, she contracted syphilis. And then it went on showing what it. did to the
body. You know, the body just practically folded up and so did the lily. On, oh it was
very, very impressive. And to this day, I, I still think that you can do more by an
impression to someone.
Now that affected me in such a manner that 1 went back, now 1 don't know if 1 put this
down on one of those plats, but I was back at, uh, uh, I was selected as a delegate to NEA.
And I went to everything that had to do with that, you know, you have your choice where
you will go study groups to study. And I will never forget, at that time, they were putting
ultra light, on, near toilets, so that they would kill the germs. And the national director of
health at that time pointed out to all of us that were seated in that auditorium listening to
him how futile it was to just think a light was going to kill all the germs behind those
screws and things. It was impossible. And that was another thing that impressed me. I've
had, I've had so many good lessons, it's like I told you when it come, came to studying for
a degree, I didn't want to go back and study Greek literature when I needed to study
something, uh, something else that was more appropriate.
L. L. : You know the movie that made such a big impression on you, about the Easter lily...
M. C. : about that lily?
L. L. : Yeah, did you ever talk to your students about that in P.E. classes?
teaching 042 M. C. : No, I didn't, but 1 talked to them about many other things about being cautions, uh,
washing your hands being so important, and, and, and when you are eating, it's so
important to not be thinking that you can't, to ignore what's going on around you. You
have to be, uh, cautious, no matter what you do or where you are. There are always
opportunities available to you if you don't. Well, that's enough of that.
L. L. : Um, what about your, when you were in high school, do you remember what kinds of
clothes you used to wear?
M.C. : What kind of...
L. L. : ...clothes you used to like to wear?
fashion 050 M. C. : Oh, everyone at that time wore pleated sk, pleated navy-blue skirts, navy-blue mid, a white
middy with a navy blue collar on it, that was the !N, and I remember, uh, having a navy-
blue pleated skirt and a sweater and white blouses. And one time, 1 had a blouse that had a
collar that came up rather high in the front. And I wa, didn't particularly like that blouse,
but the music teacher did. And the minute I walked into the room, she said, "Oh, you look
so nice this morning," And of course a, after that, I liked to wore it. But that was the, that
was the regular. And saddle shoes, they were "in" then, way back when.
35
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mother
expectations 067
teaching
L. L. : Did your parents ever make comments about the way that you dressed, did they like it?
062 M. C. : No, Oh, I imagine they did. The didn't way anything. My mother made most of my
clothes, 'course she didn't make them, uh, the, navy-blue middy, but everybody was
wearing them. I think I have it on in one of those pictures,
L. L. : What about your expectations for the future when you were in hi, what did you think you
were going to do with your career, or...?
M. C. : I always, I always thought, uh, I always thought of the future. That's one thing tliat I can
honestly say. I, I never was, I never was really broke. I was down where it might have
been pennies. But I always, I've always looked out for the future. And that's why I'm
still looking out for the future [laugh]. Even though I know the future is slim.
074 L. L, : What about, urn, your expectations for your job, did you always know you wanted to be a
teacher?
M. C. : I think I did, I always loved children, I still do. And I always, uh, had, uh, evidently I had
leadership qualities or I wouldn't have been the captain of the baseball team, or captain of
the basketball team, or, you know, taking on opportunities that arose.
retirement 082 Just like when I moved in here, I moved in quietly to, uh, uh, thinking I had retirement.
The first thing they did was to ask me to, uh, uh, speak on the origin of the house. This
was the first teachers' retirement home in the United States. And, uh, uh, I grew up with it
you might say, so naturally I knew a little about people that did it. And it was easy to
work, to speak about it. And to this day, I, I'm not hesitant to speak, you don't have to
draw me out very well, very much, but you're doing a good job.
L. L.: That about expectations, um, of a family and marriage when you were in high school, did
you know that you.,.?
expectations 090 M. C. : No, that didn't bother me in high school. I wasn't concerned with, I, I, I take, uh, I take
life a step at a time. I'm not one that plunges into something. I want to know all about it,
that's why, uh, I ha, had such a difficult time to retire, you know. I, I, I think if people
need someone, it would just, like you called me, my first thought was, "No, no, no. I don't
want to get into anything else." And then I put myself in your place, and I thought now,
"She's a nice young lady, and, how would I feel if I had a difficult time trying to get
someone." And you can get many people, but many times, you don't get the type of
person that you need. And you don't want someone that's going to drag this out because I
know your time is as precious as anyone's, or more precious 'cause you're getting closer to
that hour when you get that little gift in you hand. I try to be considerate of other people.
And I try to praise people for what they do, the service here, and those people who, who
serve. Many time I don't like to listen to stories, but I, I do because I know it's a release
for that person even if I don't care to consider it.
L. L. : What about working, did you work through college?
M.C.: Did I work hard?
L. L. : Did you work, did you have a job other than going to school?
working 112 M. C. : Well, I, I, I had plenty of jobs in the summer time. And, of course I told you I worked
through my first fre, my freshman year, and I, I, bu, but I told that story. And, uh, when I
went to Bellingham, I, uh, I worked, uh, during the Christmas Holidays in one of the, uh,
well at that time they called it a Dry -Goods store, nowadays, you'd call it something else,
merchandise I suppose, I don't know. But it was handling ladies lingerie and things of that
nature at Christmas time. I don't know, my, my, my roommate did it also, so we had
company going and coming. I've always been able to get a job, I didn't, I never have to
36
index #
apply for my first position because the P.E., the head of the P.E. department at Bellingham
came to me one morning and long before it was time to apply for a position, and, uh, and
she said, "Margaret, I th, I think you would be interested in this position at Mouxie over at
Yakima. And I was, and I applied for it, and I got it. And then, uh, when I came to going
to Black Diamond, I knew I wanted to transfer and get back on this side of the mountain.
And, uh, my father knew the clerk at the board of Black Diamond, so I did submit, my, my,
my application there. And right away, I got it. So, that's how I happened to be there for 3
years. Next.
L. L. : [laugh] What about, uh, su, your summer jobs?
M. C. : summer jobs? Well, the first summer, we went to, my friend and I, this Helen, likewise a
teacher, we went to Puyallup, and we worked on the Paul Hamous Jam, Puyallup Jam
Factory. And, uh, that was, we had a lot of fun because we made it on our own. But, uh,
it wasn't a very stimulating position because they had a copper tank that had, uh, oil, this
was on the 'bout, uh, this deep, so that's not much of a tank. But out, uh, I don't know
what else you'd call it, ju, just like railroad track, and,uh,uh,you had a wooden paddle.
And, uh, uh,you,you paddled that; it was to cool the jam before it was put in bottles.
'Course nowadays they do it so differently. And that's what we did for 2 summers.
L. L. : Did you get to talk to each other the whole time?
M. C. : Did I what?
L. L. : Did you get to talk to each other while you were working?
friends 153 M. C. : Oh, yes, yes. You could talk to each other. And, and, you know, uh, things come. One
time, uh, Helen was putting strawberries in, in a vat, and, uh, she picked up the wooden
box, you know, light weight, and she threw it over just as Mr. Paul Hamous, the
superintendent, came in. He said, "Can't you treat our boxes a little more gently." All she
did was roll her eyes [Margaret makes an eye-rolling gesture]. [laugh]
L. L. : Did you have a good time working there with Helen?
M. C. : Oh, well, we always had a good time because we were always together anyhow. And that
was, and we stayed with the ba, the bankers, a banker's, the head of the First National
Back there's mother was an elderly lady, I don't suppose she was as old as my mother, but
she looked awfully old. And she had a, a, a spare room. And b, uh, and so she offered us
to us for, uh, and with Krist, with Kitchen privileges. So we cooked for ourselves mostly
what we brought from home over the weekends. And then we went home Saturday night
and came back Sunday night. Next.
teaching 168 L. L. : What about your first job teaching in Black Diamond? How was that experience?
M. C. : What about, oh, oh, the work at Black Diamond?
L. L. : um-huh
M. C. : Well, you had, uh, you had about a half hour to eat for lunch, and you went home which
wo, would be be about 3 blocks to walk, and I still blame that on the fact that I eat more
hurriedly than mots people, [laugh]
L. L. : What about teaching in Black Diamond?
M. C. : teaching? Well, that was an experience in itself because you had about every experience
you could have. Now that was not a small district because it was what they called a, uh, oh
dear, what do you call those, uh, uh, uh,a district that takes in surrounding schools, all the
little schools. It wa, well I must be getting old because I can't remember certain names
37
index #
that they called them. But anyway, it was a very interesting... And this was the 3 story
school house, uh, uh, a big one, a big square school house. And, uh, they had a bell in one
end of it, you know, and thejanitor pulled the bell t, call the kil, children in, and they all
lined up on the sidewalk outside, and marched into the building. I had fourth grade. I
enjoyed that very much. But, they were, I, I had a wealth of experiences in that one year. I
was, ha, on playground, you asked for it, I was on playground duty one time, and, uh, the
basement of the building, uh, had lavatories in it. And, uh, and I walking past, and the door
was open. And I saw 2 little kindergartners, where the water drained was on the floor, and
they were seeing who could hit that water drain, these 2 little kindergartners. 'Course you
can leave that out.. [laugh]
conflict 198 Now that was on experience, but I want to tell you a very, very interesting experience
that happened during this time, A girl in my room, I can remember her name, her name
was Sh, Sophie. And she had a lavaliere, do you know what a lavaliere is like? Well, it,
it's somewhat like a cross, or, or, a medallion, you know. But, uh, uh, and she took it off
her neck, and she was playing with it during reading class. And I walked down and held
my hand out. And I just took it away from her so her attention would be on the reading
lesson. And I set it my my desk. And when school was out, it was missing. Now I, her
father wrote me a letter, and said that that was pure gold, 'course you didn't know,
probably wasn't if she had it, but anyway, it, it was, he, he said I would have to replace it.
Being young, I thought, "Goodness. What can I do?" Uh, I wanted her to get it back, uh,
and I, I prayed over that tiling, and I thought to myself, "I talk to the children about it, and
I told them, you know, about taking things that didn't belong to them even though they
were fascinated, and they would have like to have had one like it. And, nothing happened.
On the third day, a little girl came in, and she said to me, "Mrs. Covey, I, I saw so-and-so
throw this into the bushes, and I went and looked for it afterward." And she said, "I
brought it to you." Well, I say, "You certainly did the right thing." And I just praised her
about it. In the meantime, the assistant superintendent was a great big, heavy-set woman.
And, of course, she knew that I was, that I'd only had a couple years teaching, and I wasn't
able to handle it. She says, "I will handle this." And, oh, she gave me a, you know, a
lecture too, but I wasn't satisfied with her lecture. When I'm not satisfied with anything, I
try to improve it. Well, anyway, she, she blamed the girl that brought it in as being the
culprit that stole it to begin with.
Do you know that 50-some years later, I was seated on that davenport over there
when the phone rang on a Sunday morning. And this little Helen that had brought it in
called and asked if I was Miss Spaight who was a teacher in Black Diamond in 1924 or 25.
And I said, "Yes." I was amazed, that child had worried. Now she was a grandmother,
and she had worried her entire life because someone accused her of stealing what she'd
hadn't stolen. And she said that'd bothered all those years. And I said to her, "Helen,
don't worry about it because it bothered my as much as it bothered you." And I said, "I
knew you weren't to blame for it." Well, she said, "Everybody thought I was because the
assistant superintendent got after me for it." And, you see how, how we can take and ruin
somebody else's life practically by an unconscious th, thing that we have said or done. Oh,
that bothered me so. And I said, "If it's any solace to you now, I have never since then let
a superintendent or a principal ever handle any kind of a case for me. I always handled it
myself because I thought I was better off to do it." They have certain principles that they
use, and they use it for everyone. And sooner or later, an innocent victim falls prey to it.
Well, that taught me a great deal. I've had many good lessons in life, many good ones,
usually through somebody else. But it's, it pays off.
conflict 270 L. L. : Um, remember when you were talking about the one principle that was really rude to you
in class, she made you sit down...?
M. C. : The principal that did what?
L. L. : .. .was very nide to you when you were teaching?
M. C. : Oh, mercy, I'll never forget that either.
38
index #
L. L. : Um, you said that...
M. C. : May, her name was May.
L. L. : Could you tell me more about her?
M. C. : I certainly could. I could sh, tell you 'till midnight. And it, and if the Seattle District didn't
get rid of here by age, I think I would have done something because she was a person who
ruled by force and everything. I told you about the broken window and her wu, wu,
whipping this child on the stage?
L. L. : No, you didn't.
M. C. : Uh, well, a child broke a window, and she accused him of breaking it. I suppose he did, I
don't know, but we all do things like that, accidents happen with everyone. And what did
she do with this youngster, but she brought him before the boys, and they all sat in the
auditorium on the floor. And she brought this child in, and took him behind the drawn
curtains, and whipped him with a whip. Now, to me, that was just inhuman. That was only
one of the things. She had another rule that the child had to eat every, if they bought their
lunch at school, they had to eat everything on that lunch. And, one day, I was supervising
the lunchroom when a little girl came to me, and she said, "Mrs. Covey, I never did like
pumpkin." And, and they had pumpkin ice-cream for dessert. I said, "If you didn't like it
and you don't want it," I said, "give it to me, and I'll get rid of it. No I didn't make a, this
wasn't hidden, nothing under the rule. I don't li, to this day, I don't like pumpkin ice-
cream either. And, I didn't see shy she would be forced to eat it. You know, you almost
gag over something like that that you don't like. So I took it, and I scraped it off and put it
on a paper napkin or something like that, and I put it in the garbage. Well, I don't miss, I
don't think May, this su, principle, ever saw me, or she would have reprimanded me. But
she did su, to me they were foolish things.
The children had to march in from the outdoors, even in the winter time, to an old-
fashioned victrola, you know those big, high victrolas. And they would beat out the music,
and if a child was out of step, they got dragged out. She'd reach out and pull them out of
line. Now who doesn't get out of step once in a while. I'll bet she was out of step more
that she was in step. Oh, I could go on and on, you wouldn't want to hear it all.
L. L. : Wh, what did the other teachers think about her?
cnflct/teaching 318 M. C. : Well, I was new and I was fresh, and so I wasn't talking to many of the other teachers,
once in a while I would say one little thing about something being injustice, you know.
And they kind of passed it off. They kind of liked to, uh, be in that area because Japanese
children are, uh, are easier, uh, are easily tr, you know, educated because they have a desire
for it for one thing. But, I sure didn't like her training. And I told you about the time
when she took all the eraser off the pencil, didn't I? Well, that was another situation. I had
fifth grade arithmetic along with P.E., big P.E. classes, Japanese are great, you see, for P.E.
Well, anyway, she came in one morning as school was starting, and she planked paper and
pencil down in front of me, and she says, "How do you teach?" Now the children are all
here.
Now that was a rude thing to do anyway. And she says, "How do you teach
fractions?" And, I proceeded to sit down and show her how I taught fractions. I've
always loved to teach fractions, like teaching decimal point, I always like that, certain
things appeal to you always, and you're better in something like that that you like. And she
looked up and she saw that my class had erasers on their pencils. Now this, these were
new pencils, just handed out, and this is in World War II. She walked down the aisle, took
every pencil over her knee, cracked the eraser oflfthe top. And I stood there spellbound.
War-time, and a pencil can last so much longer when it has an eraser on it than it you tore,
took it off. Any, shall I say, fool knows that. And, so, when she was through, she walked
up to me and she said, "We take all the pe, er, didn't you know that we take all the erasers
off the pencils here? They don't need erasers." In other words, you weren't supposed to
39
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education
husband
make a mistake. Show me the person that never makes a mistake. Well, I'd had enough
her at that time. But that's not where I ended.
I went down to the, the main office, and I saw the vice principle in charge of
elementary schools. And I walked into his office told him who I was and that I had, felt
that I had a purposeful visit to make to the head of elementary education. And I told him
about it being war-time. I told him how she had, well she had humiliated me, but I didn't
tell him that. But, how unnecessary it was for her to remove that eraser from that pencil in
that room when those children were all there to see what she was doing, and to say that
they weren't supposed to make a mistake. He never, when I finished talking, he looked at
me, and he said, "Mrs. Covey, the te, teachers are not supposed to be judging the
principles." And I turned and walked out. But believe me, I, I saw tliat that got around
plenty because I wasn't gonna have her affecting all, imagine 800 or 1000 students. And
that, to me that was crime. So, I'll go to bat for anybody that I think needs a little support
on anything like that because I don't think its, I don't think that's right at all.
T saw Miss May, no, no, May Long, no Long was P.E. teacher at Bellingham, well,
anyway, I don't, I know her first name was may, but after that, if I ever mentioned her
name, everyone said, "Oh, she's one of the 7 devils, didn't you know that?" There were 7
of 'em. But they don't have those kind anymore. Teachers can, can say what they'd like
to, and they should. After all, that's a corporation; you should cooperate, and you should
be working together for the harmony of the, and, and the education of the children. And
you're not going to do anything to a child when you keep dragging him out of a line. If
you don't teach him, well, it's... next.
430 L. L. : Remember last time, you said that you thought her problem was just that went to "normal
school?"
M. C. : Well, you see, this is at a time now, when, if you didn't upgrade yourself doing something,
you were left behind doing nothing, or doing what she did. And anytime you see
somebody putting force behind you, and forcing you to do things, that's not education. To
me, I'd hate to tell you what it is. But, that's, and, and, uh, I came to the conclusion that
she couldn't have had much of an education, you see, from back at the old school because,
when I first started school, you, if you passed the state examination, then you could teach.
Now passing an examination doesn't give you a good teacher. Since then, I learned from
my own son; he said, "Now big business would rather not have an A student, they'd rather
have a B student that they could train their way. See what that meant? And I think she
just, that was her way of forcing an issue when she didn't hiow how else to handle it. And
that's weakness, that's not strength.
459 L. L. ; What about, um, meeting your husband? Could you tell me about that?
M. C. : Well, he was someone I knew in high school. But he was a senior when I was a freshman,
so I didn't have much to do with that situation. But then when we went to the university,
oh I went out with him maybe 2 or 3 times, but not on a, I was already going with this
other boy. And, uh, but, later then, we took up again, and that's when we became... Now
that's a, that's another situation for young people. Uh, he was land and thoughtful and
loving and, uh, and, uh very considerate.
end Tape 3. side B
Tape 4
sjdeA
children006
M. C. : Well, there isn't much else to say.
L. L. : About your...
M. C. : Oh well, my son is always taking an integrate part in helping me with my daughter, not
financially, I've been able to do it myself, and I prefer it that way. But, uh, he has done
40